I am open to the potential impact of the motion to power output. I suspect there may well be a difference. The issue is how to practically validate it without undo influence or uncontrolled variables.
Repeats between days are really open to impact from many factors of living a life. If there are differences on the order of a few percent, it will be difficult to firmly attribute it to motion differences vs any of the normal influences. If it is really massive, I expect it to be so different as to be prohibitive and easily noticed. That may well be true at the limits and when we are at our worst efficiency.
Then consider what testing without motion vs training with. Could almost be like the difference between inside and outside FTPās.
I have no answers, lots of questions, and a prediction that this is all more complex than can be easily assessed by any of us
All true. FWIW I plan to try RT with/without E-Flex and will report my results if interested. My cadence is 85+ normally, but went from ~70 in minute 18 down as low as 45 just before the loss of power. At that cadence, smoothness is gone, and Iām gritting it out with lots of upper body motion.
For sure, please share results. I donāt mean to knock down testing, but point out that we need to recognize the potential limits of N=1 testing. Testing may well indicate what works and doesnāt for a given person, but I caution about others taking that info further than informational without their own experience thrown in.
I am really hoping to see studies on trainer motion compared to rigid and outside riding, to see what really is at play here. Iāve done some testing with motion sensor apps on my phones inside, outside and on rollers, and there is some interesting stuff at play.
At the cadences you mention, Iām not at all surprised there are some interesting results. What would be great is parallel testing outside to see what is happening there too. I know that there is far more motion outside than most people realize.
Kickr CORE version of the Inside Ride E-Flex motion system officially coming. This is a welcomed addition for a trainer that is quite widely owned and used.
If there is any interest I have figured out how to mount the Elite Sterzo onto the E-Flex fork riser. It was actually not too tough; the Sterzo is just a magnet and a Hall Effect sensor mounted to the pivot point. Iām still tweaking the design but I should be able to report soon how well the integration went.
Iāve had my E-flex for a couple of months now and I really like it. The only drawback thus far is that I just cannot get out of the saddle and sprint. Whenever I do I end up lifting the front off the ground and then putting it back all crooked. The sprint finish of my last few Zwift races have been comical bordering on sad.
Anyone else has this issue, any good ideas? Iāve contemplated bolting the front to my floor, but Iād prefer not to do that.
My alternative to bolting to the floor, would be to make a ābridgeā between the front and rear floor sections of the E-Flex. Effectively tie the two sections into one piece. That would keep them at the same gap and prevent any twisting too.
As to the source of your issue, it may stem from your body placement and what you are doing with the bars. I canāt do much more than guess without a video, but maybe your weight placement and motions are the cause?
Iām interested in purchasing one of these. Curious if you (or anyone else) has tried the e-flex without the front fork stand, meaning leaving the front wheel on the fork. Iām wondering if that would make the out-of-saddle efforts closer to IRL. Thoughts/experiences?
Your improvement hacks are the bomb. Thanks for sharing in such detail.
No, Iām not aware that anyone has tried the rear with just a regular wheel up front.
From a guess, it would likely fail to work as desired. The leveling control in the factory system comes from the connection between the fork and steering base. This controls the lean angle of the bike by direct steering input to lean output. There is a leveling spring setup that assists for the neutral upright position but it is relatively light and unobtrusive.
The way it works is the vertical axis pivot of the stand and head tube angle creates a control system and only works that way with the anchor of the whole base.
Swapping that out with the regular wheel eliminates most of the lateral roll axis support from the E-Flex front. You might get some level of control from the nature of the wheel and tire contact patch geometry, but mu gut says it will be very unstable.
I will try a test, just to see and report back. Itās an interesting idea at the very least.
I have to agree with Chad. The whole system is driven from the front, so lacking that I think neither the fore-aft nor the side-to-side will really work properly. The fore-aft movement will definitely be difficult with a tire on the ground.
Too bad though, I still canāt sprint without lifting the front. I guess I need to learn to hit 900 watts seated.
Thank you both for the input. Chad- would love to hear if you gave it a shot. Maybe at low psi?
I appreciate how evolution of all these add ons (rocker plates, e-flex, wahoo climb and elite steering units) are all trying to get us closer to IRL. Just trying to think of ways that all the above can be combined into one-ish.
btw- IMHO, 900watts seated is not happening. At least not for me.
I have mote designs Iād like to build and test, but my modified E-Flex with the mini fulcrum is the best I have tried. The leverage and steering combo is something I firmly believe is part of the future solution.
Pure steering or pure leverage can work, but mixed function is the way to go.
I really wish InsideRide had connected the front and rear components to keep them perfectly aligned. It would also make it much easier to align perpendicular to my TV, which I use for TR.
I do think that a bridge between them is a good idea. It would need length adjustment, to suit the range of wheel base for different bikes, but that could be donāt without too much effort.
Iām happy to try and design something if there is enough interest. If it doesnāt have to be pretty, I could even build and ship it to those not willing or able to DIY.
I would be interested in seeing what you come up to connect front and rear. That, in addition to your fulcrum mod for the front, may be all that is needed for a very close to IRL experience that can be had at present using a trainer, until some smart people in the industry try to better incorporate all the kinematics into one system.
And Iād still like to hear results if you decide to try the idea of front-wheel on. Iām sensing that the springs in the rear would need be beefed up to control the fore-aft for this to work.
Thatās the problem. There arenāt any springs i. The rear. The only one is for balancing the flywheel, but it offers too little to be of any assistance for actual riding. Thats why I donāt expect a wheel setup to work. Youād have to add springs that arenāt currently present.
I will do some looking to a bridge design and share what I come up with.
I tried just a front wheel up front when I first got the system thinking it would give more rocking action. It was a disaster! There is no way to counter balance the rocking with no solid connection up front. Basically you just fall over.
There is no way to counter balance the rocking with no solid connection up front. Basically you just fall over.