Let’s open up the bag of worms. Not really interested in legality or such. Mostly I’m looking for the science behind them, when and/or how to utilize them for training and racing, and any brand recommendations.
@brendanhousler if you had any input I know you’ve had experience with them. From what I’ve read from your posts, you aren’t a fan of HVMN. And from what I can tell, it’s because they’re a ketone diol (alcohol). Ketonaide sells the Hard Ketones (ethanol free alcohol). I’ve used HVMN for a couple weeks and wondering if I’m basically drinking (in the alcohol sense) on the bike? I haven’t had great results with HVMN and considering trying Ketonaide or Delta-G instead but unsure where to start as they both offer a few different products.
The other question I’m having is about timing. Are ketones meant to be taken daily? Are there any benefits of daily usage vs taking them before big rides or races (ie sporadically)? Am I limiting myself by taking them only before Threshold and VO2 workouts? Are there benefits for Z2 and long endurance rides? What is the best time before a ride/race to take them?
Lots of questions. I’m hoping to have a discussion about the pros and cons of ketones and whether people think they’re worth it.
Edit: Also, just looked at the pricing of Delta-G. $30 per serving? HVMN is like $3-4 per serving. Is this because the type of ketone is different? Going to be way out of my price range.
There is actually research that shows acute ingestion of ketones (ie sporadically before workout/race) hampers upper end power.
However, there is evidence that for longer events they have benefits when taken with sodium bicarbonate. They have episode on science of getting faster about this as well
There is also evidence they aid in recovery:
From what I can tell, using them before short duration, high intensity workouts/races is the least beneficial way to use them
Interesting. And anecdotally fits my experience of feeling awful when taking them before VO2 workouts. The days I’ve felt good after taking them are the long 3-4+ hour days. Which makes sense I think.
start with the Tactical. It’s the most ketones per serving. I can’t post my blog here (seems shilling) but if you google around for EVOQ ketones, you’ll find it, and I discuss my own dosing and such.
both scenarios are definitely applicable! check the blog for more!
correct! two totally different products, and HVMN is knowingly lying about their data, which is from when they licensed Delta G product before the contract ran out
It’s funny. Ketoneaid is 30g. Which they consider 12 servings, so 2.5g per serving. DeltaG ketones is 32g and they consider it 1-2 servings, so 16-32g per serving. Seems they don’t agree on how much you should take.
I’ve experimented with Ketones from Ketone Aid and Delta G. I ordered the sample pack from Ketonaide which came with a bottle of KE4, a bottle of KE1 and their Snake Water and I ordered 6 bottles of Delta G.
I tried them pre-ride and mid-ride usually to the tune of 5 or 10 mil pre-ride and then 5 or 10 ml during the ride. I noticed some benefit in being able to focus and continue pushing the pedals. However, I never had a feeling of sudden freshness or a noticeable increase in power or ability during my rides.
I tested it out with both brands. While taking this stuff in I also took in calories too in order to avoid any hypoglycemic effects. One thing I did notice is that I had experience some of those effects while using the ketone products.
After carefully listening to a few different podcasts and reading some protocols I decided for myself that they were just too expensive to justify on a normal basis. I have decided to use the rest of my two bottles as recovery tools by taking 5ml before bedtime after my higher tss training days. If the cost were much less-let’s say 3 bottles for $20 bucks I would experiment a whole lot more, but it’s just so cost prohibitive.
However, I believe if you are curious about it and can afford it, it’s worth trying because if there’s a chance that it lifts your performance or recovery in a notable way then it’s gold.
from what I understand from many years of keto or very low carb dieting, you can’t just take ketones and it boosts you. you have to be able to utilize them. and if you can utilize them, you can eat in such a way to make them yourself.
I’d pass.
btw anyone endorsing them or writing good articles about it also sells them. so there’s that. makes me pretty skeptical.
I’ve used HVMN and with Delta G in training and during races. There is a definite difference in the two brands and I prefer Delta G.
I think there is a benefit as I feel fresher and mentally sharper for more intense efforts with all other factors remaining the same. I have switched from taking them at the beginning of races to taking them sometime around mid race which has made a big difference in making up for errors in my early race fueling especially when races open up at full gas.
I have no data to support what I am doing but I found that this works pretty darn good for me. Its expensive though.
No doublt it’s a nasty taste, but for whatever reason the Ketone Aid was way worse. That’s a pretty hefty dose, I never took that much. I’d put 10 ml with some espresson and sugar in a small bottle and use that midride.
