Can you cite it here? I’d love to catch up on anything I’ve missed, especially if it’s very clear-cut that 1 : 0.8 is optimal over, say, 1 : 0.9, and for what scenarios specifically.
700-1500mg of sodium.
This is a really great thread, but it’s also a bit overwhelming because there’s so much information. I hope you don’t mind me asking questions that have already been answered. So I understand the ideal ratio is 2:1 glucose:fructose (or variants of this ratio). Am I right in thinking that malto breaks down into glucose, so 2:1 malto:fructose is still on target? And sucrose is also 2:1 glucose:fructose? So if I mix my own drink with malto (which I prefer) and table sugar, it needs to be 1:1 (or thereabouts) to get up to the right fructose content. Is this about right?
I’m on a three day road bikepacking trip and I like the maltodextrin/table sugar mix bottle as part of my fueling strategy. I put 40 grams malto+30 grams sugar, a pinch of salt and an electrolyte tab. I put three of these mixes in cling film balls and they have held up, happy with how it works. The packages look rather suspect though.
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Sucrose is 1:1 glucose:fructose
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Thank you
Whats your opinion on using honey/maple syrup as a base for drink/gel? Honey+maltodextrin? Maple syrup+maltodextrin?
Just want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this. We did our first couple of rides with malto+sugar and things went very well. This may completely change they way we fuel.
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Happy to help!
Yes, quick maltodextrin explainer here. Good timing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT25IRYiLFM
Sucrose = glucose + fructose.
Posting fructose explainer to our channel in a couple hours. Glucose explainer early next week.
Somewhere between that and 1:1 is most likely, but it remains debated. I opt for closer to 1:1 in most cases.
Correct, if targeting 2:1 glucose:fructose.
Adding any amount of malto to sugar, up equal parts malto to sucrose, will probably work well.
More info here on rates of intake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-1JJqMblvc
Both are close to 1:1 with honey exceeding 1;1 in favor of fructose. Honey also has more other stuff in it, IIRC. ~30% “other stuff” … ish.
I can never remember all this so I’m putting into an app I’m writing with a SWE from Google. If you know any SWE’s wanting to work on an app to fuel training… we could use another hand with experience in coding app UI’s. Our design is good and finalized in Figma, but getting it into code is another story! Our MVP is in beta testing. Getting the nutrition math into code is not hard because I can spell it out in depth, and our lead dev is a math wiz. But we need another dev to expedite the whole process and would love for that person to be someone who rides bikes and cares about fueling! (ie… I want to add to our team a mythical app UI SWE who wants to code an app they’ll actually use themselves, which is completely SPEC’d out already, for fueling/nutrition/hydration).
Yep! That’ll work great if you like those flavors in training! I upchucked up maple syrup once in a college track workout and have had an aversion since then. 
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I owe you an apology, @kurt.braeckel, I got sidetracked while replying to you a month ago and just returned to reread what I missed. I was clearly speeding through replies (not an excuse, shame on me) and not paying enough attention to even catch the overall praise which you were giving your experience. I’m sorry. Replying as I should have here:
Amen to that!
Really cool to read this, @kurt.braeckel.
Beautiful implementation of scaling with duration. I do similarly, just with more homemade stuff. I bias those short hard events to just “enough” carbs, and staying optimally hydrated. Your two products of choice are excellent for that purpose.
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Thank you!
Has anyone tried a drink mix based on fruit juice with mixed in maltodextrin? Due to circumstances, for a few months in the year oranges are basically for free in my part of the world, so I thought I’d try and use that
Yes. I use 250ml of pineapple juice as a base (for my calculations comes out at 14g fructose and 14g maltodextrin) and then add whatever I need on top. Gets the nice flavour and plenty of CHO.
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Not during the ride, but I regularly mix OJ, malto, salt and protein powder as my recovery drink.
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Hi guys. Ive been skimming through the thread since last night and i love all the valuable and knowledgeable contributions. I have to admit i dont do much cycling as I do jiu jitsu but at the end of the day Ive been looking for better ways to hydrate…especially for recovery.
Last night I took 3 togo packets of sugar free garorads and 3 bananas and my soreness was definitely better than the last mornings.
I want to know if anybody that has more experience with me in this thread can tell me a good recepie for me to take before bed to take before bed? Of course keeping hydrated throughout the day is key also (which im still leaning malto is a key ingredient).
So much information to absorb at one time but my soreness and muscle fatigue would def appreciate the help!
I know that sodium citrate has been discussed here thouroughly, but im still confused about how much to use.
Can someone recommend how much Sodium Citrate (trisodium citrate) to add to a 500ml bottle, in grams?
I know that this will be different for different people and temps. I’m just looking for a good starting point to experiment. I have been adding about 5g to 1 Liter bottles and i think it might not be enough. For context; I am going for a 2 x 1 liter bottle strategy with one bottle water and the other (with the sodium) my carb mix. The 2 bottles should last for 3 hours of riding (although ive pushed that to 4 in cool weather).
I did some calculations over here:
Let me try simplifying, using Precision Hydration as the example:
- PH 500 packet has 250mg sodium per 16 ounce / 455ml bottle
- PH 1000 packet has 500mg sodium per 16 ounce / 455ml bottle
- PH 1500 packet has 750mg sodium per 16 ounce / 455ml bottle
(somewhat confusingly, the nutrition info on PH website is for 32 ounces but the mixing instructions are for 16 ounces, so the nutrition info is for 2 packets and 2 bottles)
Lets call those low, medium, and high.
1 gram of sodium citrate (trisodium citrate anhydrous) has 267mg sodium
- Low: add 1 gram of sodium citrate for 267mg sodium per bottle
- Medium: add 2 grams of sodium citrate for 534mg sodium per bottle
- High: add 3 grams of sodium citrate for 801mg sodium per bottle
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I’ve been using 1tbsp for my single 3-4 hour fueling bottle, with my rule of thumb being 1tsp per hour.
According to the interwebz, that works out to 4.1g sodium citrate per hour.
ETA: Now, that’s sodium citrate, but if you’re using TRIsodium citrate (which is what’s available), then it’s closer to 5g… so aim between 4 and 5 g/hr IMO.
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From my link above:
- 1 teaspoon = 1.327g / 1327mg of sodium = 4.969g sodium citrate (trisodium citrate anhydrous)
- 1 tablespoon = 3.981g / 3981mg of sodium = 14.907g sodium citrate (trisodium citrate anhydrous)
I weighed my Sodium Citrate to confirm it was trisodium citrate anhydrous and then did math using basic chemistry.
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Conversions kicking my ass. I just use a tablespoon. 
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