Red Light Green Light: Request for "burned out" athletes!

“Green Light”


“Yellow Light”

“Red Light”

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This entirely :ok_hand:, stuggling to workout how it knows, guess it can’t. I can handle twice or three times the load if ‘all my ducks’ are aligned. When I stuggle is mainly due to long term inadequate sleep. Really interested to see what is says for myself.

PS when not subscribed to TR and doing a sweet spot progression, most workouts when I did subscribe said not reccomended but where totally fine.

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This. No need to throw in another term and shy away some users with too much language (like the distinction between progression levels and workout levels in some threads here).

@Nate_Pearson Feel free to look at my calendar April 2022. Threshold trainings might have been on the edge. Also would love to see the days AFTER February 17th 2021 and March 6th 2021 when my sweetspot progression ended (105 minutes and 120 minutes at 90%). Would like to take part in the beta program.

My first thought was “Training Tachometer”, but I’m not sure if a tach is something people are still generally aware of.

Have submitted mine!

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Tachs generally being round in shape with needless and a graduated marked scale (with a “Redline” zone to avoid) are a bit dated and different than the pure color shown in the examples. Some cars still have them despite having automatic transmissions. More have them when they include a manual mode for the driver.

But building on that idea and touching on the “Redline” aspect that does seem relatable I could see “Training Redline” or other derivations playing here. Pushing more toward race cars, the modern ones usually have rev / shift lights as signals that are often easier to use in race situations than a tach. Many align with the color progression already discussed so I dig it as an option.

image

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@Nate_Pearson

  1. Regarding UI, shading the entire day’s Calendar box with yellow (warning) or red (don’t do it) is very clear & visually unmissable, so I’d retain this method of signalling to the user rather than trying to work in some green/yellow/red symbol instead that might be overlooked. Keep it simple.

  2. Despite there being no green visual signal (keeps the UI cleaner by avoiding a signal for the default/majority state) , the RLGL functionality is clearly a type of “traffic light for training readiness”. Garmin has already claimed training readiness, so that’s out. Since we refer to traffic lights for vehicles as simply “traffic lights”, it makes sense to simplify this traffic light for training functionality down to just “Training Light”. Keeping it simple again.

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Just an FYI. When I ride I just grab my phone and open the app on an apple phone. The screen is black.
It may be different depending on what you use to do your workout.

Despite the few examples by Nate above being on the web, I sure expect this feature to have access & visibility within the TR apps (mobile and desktop). Just a matter of consistency for one but also this being what seems to be a core feature moving forward.

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I remember discussing on the forum a time when I felt I was close to burning out or more specifically feeling over trained. @Nate_Pearson You commented on the post and combed through my data at the time. I just can’t remember exactly when that was or how to find the thread.

If I could find that then I’ll sign up for y’all.

Also how would this differ to say intervals where it shows you when you’ve dipped into the red? Like the pic below.

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Haven’t felt specifically burned out in years, but also haven’t strictly followed a TR plan. I use them as a skeleton upon which I build my training. Modifying up or down as I perceive my needs

I’d enjoy seeing my training reviewed through the lense of this feature to see how it understands my training and when it thinks I’ve over trained

In particular Jan 2022-Jun 2023 would be a very consistent period of high volume and, to my interpretation of it, compliance

This past seven months (July 2023 to present) has been severely disrupted by travel so might make an amusing follow up review on how (not) to train after time off

Woop

(Trust me, I took a business law class over a decade ago)

This is accurate! Nice work :-D.

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I think you’re looking at it wrong. There is an issue with people picking higher volumes than the can handle. This will help, but we want to build this earlier into plan builder to prevent someone from even starting something too high for them.

The issue is that virtually no cyclists do the plan exactly as prescribed. They switch stuff around, ride outside, race, take days/weeks off, go on runs, ride on zwift, etc.

You add those things to a well structured plan, well suddenly the plan isn’t so well structured because it has extra stuff in it.

Kind of like throwing nails into the cake mix and blaming the recipe (which didn’t include nails).

If you follow our plans exactly, you won’t trigger red days on low volume no matter what, and you won’t trigger red days on mid or high volume if you’ve got the training history to back up what you’ve picked.

So to say all these plans just need to be adapted to something more sustainable is silly.

The question is “how do I fit in my training plan with the rest of my fitness life?”. That’s one really good use of RLGL.

The other one is that this works without any TR at all! You can just ride outside and have it warn you if you’re starting to cook yourself.

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This is the most common scenario. They’ll do a mid volume plan, then replace sunday rides with an intense 3.5 hour outdoor ride.

Do that for a few weeks in a row, then they fail a VO2 max workout on tuesday and say it’s because the plans are bad. :man_shrugging:

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From what I see, it’s the addition of big long weekend rides of 3-5 hours is where people burn themselves out.

It’s not because they added an extra intensity day.

I think most people can handle 3 “hard” days per week that are within reason. Older athletes can have 2 of them (that’s why we did masters plans).

When you add a big outdoor ride to your week, that’s a “hard” day, and you need to drop something else.

Heck, you could just look at TSS.

There’s a case on this forum where someone said that our high volume polarized plan was too hard. They started to fail their intense days.

Here’s the basic weekly TSS of the polarized build HV plan.

Polarized Build - High Volume
Week 1 - 279
Week 2 - 353
Week 3 - 414
Total TSS - 1046

Here’s what the athlete was doing when he said that the plan was too hard.
Week 1 - 605
Week 2 - 524
Week 3 - 445
Total TSS - 1574 (50% more than prescribed!)

It doesn’t matter if they got all the extra TSS through endurance riding, doing 50% more TSS is going to impact the hard days.

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You’re actually really good. The only red days I see are due to big races.

July 5th, 2023
Aug 6th, 7th 2023
Oct 19th, 2023

You don’t have a ton of yellow days, but on the ones you do have, you are doing easy endurance rides or cross training with weight training.

Nice work! :clap:

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Yes, it’s on the roadmap.

Here you go!

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“Hole-O-Meter” :slight_smile:

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I think you were burning up in Dec/Jan before the Feb race. You look pretty chill between Feb and March.

But here’s Dec 22 - Jan23

Here are the issues I see:

  • Dec 3-5 | Stacking intense days (VO2 , sweet spot, VO2)
  • Dec 10-11 | Missing recovery after big outside ride

  • Dec 17-18 | Missing recovery after big outside ride

  • Dec 30-Jan 8th | Missing recovery after big outside rides



The crazy thing is you won’t always get red days from big rides. All depends on your history and performance.

We looked at a TdF athlete’s calendar and they never had a red day for the entire tour!! They only had yellow a few days and that included the rest days! :exploding_head:

This shows how well they were prepared for the tour!

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