Perhaps an argument but those three points are factually accurate for me comparing the cost to run ultegra Di2 vs force axs 15,000km/yr.
Shimano is certainly not as agile as SRAM but from where I sit are still miles ahead in respecting its customers by offering and supporting fit for purpose drivetrain options. For example, SRAM announced it was no longer supporting etap 11sp a few years after production, and less than 2yrs after the last update, with all major spares reserved for warranty. They are not in your corner.
Before we go too far down the SRAM or Shimano rabbit hole, I think we can all agree that both products have their merit, and both can learn from each other. All else would be best if we keep it to speculation on the new release, not too much on why this or that company is bad (I think there is more than enough on that already).
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I wonder if that following makes sense:
D-A: 12 speed wireless di2 only
Ultegra: 12 speed wired di2 only
105: 11 speed wired di2 (and mechanical?)
Tiagra: 11 spd mech-only
Sora: 10 speed
Claris: 9 speed
At this point Shimano would have a quite easy-to-understand line-up with well defined features at each level.
Seems like a lot of confusion for me, especially considering Shimano can’t keep stock of their parts as is, adding more variety will only make things worse. Personally I don’t see wireless 12s coming to Ultegra this year, I think only DA will get a refresh right now
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0% chance of that…I can’t think of a single time Shimano introduced a major update and did not keep it isolated to only DA for the first year…off the top of my head, I can go all the way back to the introduction of 8 spd back in 1991 and that schedule holds true.
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I think thats what they usually do…
DA gets dibs.
Then all trickles down…
I would really hope to see a 105 (including price) electronic group.
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I cant see where the benefit is unless the derailleurs are also wireless, running a di2 cable alongside or attached to a brake hose/cable is easy and neat enough so Shimano are doing half a job here IMO.
Well, the shifters‘ batteries basically last forever, while derailleur batteries empty out rather quickly. Maybe the idea here is to have these powered by a larger battery, and also get rid of the larger batteries on the mechs (that don’t look good and are not so Aero).
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I can see a benefit… Just look at the front end(handlebar/stem/headtube) of bikes these days… They’re all going integrated, and by eliminating the wiring in that area and into the frame, you’re making it that much easier to swap, service, and make changes.
And with that, as mentioned just above, I bet Dura Ace takes aim at the most “aero” and “lightest” electronic groupset title, and a shared internal battery for the derailleurs certainly helps there.
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I’ve been riding the FSA system (which is the same concept as the rumored Shimano group) for about a year now…and I have charged the system once (admittedly, I haven’t ridden my road bike much in the last few months, however).
But the point is that have a “semi-wireless” system provides ease of set-up (as noted above) with significantly longer lasting battery life for the whole system. I don’t know that the Shimano battery will allow them to say it is lighter than SRAM, but the service life of a charge will be infinitely greater.
Probably lighter to have a single battery power both derailleurs, and frankly the SRAM derailleurs with their on board batteries look massive. Potentially cheaper to replace due to simpler construction. Maybe more aero.
I have the Eagle AXS on my MTB and the Ultegra Di2 on the road bike, all function aside the AXS derailleur is MASSIVE compared to Shimano’s Di2, from every angle, and sits further outboard from the frame in the 10t compared to the Ultegra in 11t making it easier to hit on stuff.
Doesn’t look like there’s anything really all that unexpected, but it is nice to have something resembling confirmation. Kind of a bummer that they still kept that central battery.
Yup, zero chance.
@Power13
The only time in recent memory that they deviated was when they brought 12-speed Deore XT and SLX to market at the same time. SRAM was just eating too much of Shimano’s lunch.
Just a general thought. I really like where Shimano is going with Dura-ace (and then trickle down), and with GRX, and with their 1x12 mountain bike stuff.
There was a period when XTR-965 came out with the integrated mtb shifters and all that plastic, and when they went to Dura-ace 7900 and put the shifter cables under the bars and made a group that shifted worse than it’s predecessor.
But now, I love Ultegra 8000, GRX-800, and whatever the latest XT is (even the latest SLX is great stuff).
(10 years later, I started to really like the finish of the 960/965 XTR and built up my bike and then my dads bike with it. Still too much plastic though).
Combining braking and shifting is a big mistake IMHO. Even on the road side, I’ve always hated that about Shimano’s mechanical group sets.
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Agreed - central battery is a winner in my book.
Three batteries instead of 4…
therefore no spare batteries to carry etc.
SRAM‘s solution is not the best looking, but for me as a customer, it is super convenient.
I had my battery die ones, and could just swap in the battery from the FD (also have a spare one in my mini saddle bag…).
I have Ultegra 6800 and 105 5800, both came as OEM, and I can say that the performance difference is small yet noticeable. There is nothing wrong with 105 but Ultegra is a bit smoother and more refined. A couple examples: The shifter action is smoother and seems to glide with a more even distribution of resistance, the STI levers themselves feel more premium as well as the hoods being slightly more comfortable, and the machining on the rear derailleur is much nicer on the Ultegra.
This all being said, from the looks of the 7000/8000 series as well as some hands on time with some 7000 series parts, it seems like the gap between 105 and Ultegra is becoming narrower and narrower.
Yeah, being able to quickly swap batteries is great. A team mate of mine with DuraAce Di2 arrived at a race with a flat battery, even though he charged it the day before. It was non-trivial to get some juice into it in time for the race since he didn’t bring the proprietary charging cable.
So IMHO it is a trade-off and not a clear win for the large battery.
